Break Up Bangs and Other Crimes

00:00:00: Welcome to the very first episode of Gossip Curl, the podcast about all things hair.

00:00:05: My name is Hadneteswai and I have a wonderful honor of being your host—the hosts of this fantastic space where we altogether learn about all types is.

00:00:22: we will have leading experts that will take us deeper into the science and share all of their knowledge.

00:00:28: So much so, after each episode we understand stuff growing out our heads a little bit better!

00:00:34: We'll talk history, care, science, myths…and do it while having fun!

00:00:44: Gossip Curl – The podcast about All Things Hair.

00:00:55: I know quite a bit about hair because i've had all kinds of different hairstyles and hair colors over the years.

00:01:01: I am absolutely not a pro, but he is!

00:01:04: And that's why he's here.

00:01:05: please welcome Ian

00:01:06: Mayer-Marcelli!

00:01:07: Thank you.

00:01:08: How are you Ian?

00:01:09: I'm

00:01:10: really pumped to be here Because...I am incredibly passionate About All Things Hair So..I'm dying To get into it.

00:01:17: Okay so when You say I'm passionate Tell us how passionate you Are

00:01:21: Like....You

00:01:22: do this for a

00:01:23: living?!

00:01:23: I Do!

00:01:24: Yeah I mean if we have like a full day training or an episode, it just fuels me.

00:01:31: It can keep going and talking about until i fall over.

00:01:35: So what exactly is that you do?

00:01:37: And why are you here as my very first pro.

00:01:41: so I started in the hair industry As a little baby hairdresser Specializing in color.

00:01:50: And then I found a brand that I loved called Schwartzka Professional and decided to hitch myself to that wagon, you know use the brand educate on the brand To the point where now i'm on our global team and part of my job as Our hair upskilling manager Is to train people about hair, like basics fundamentals.

00:02:19: Like you know if you're selling products right?

00:02:22: You should know about here

00:02:23: and the thing is so much about it that you are teaching teachers.

00:02:28: That's why I was like oh no!

00:02:30: You really do know quite

00:02:31: a bit too.

00:02:32: It's been a minute um...I won't say how long but yeah i've been doing it in-and I find every new chapter that hair has brought me has reinvigorated this passion that I have for it.

00:02:46: And I just find it so exciting to talk about, to do it?

00:02:50: To teach it doesn't matter.

00:02:52: So hearing your passion...I wonder why Do you and at the end of the day Why do we all care so much About hair?

00:03:03: because We do

00:03:05: yeah For most people It's The accessory That You Cannot Take Off

00:03:12: Um,

00:03:14: or if you bought it.

00:03:14: You can um

00:03:18: But

00:03:18: I mean for most people.

00:03:20: It's you know, you can change your outfit?

00:03:22: You can change her makeup you Can you know whatever.

00:03:25: but hair is something that you kind of have to Be with every day and its it can be really annoying And you know ruin your mood Or it could just make you feel all the feels for yourself and have a great day or date or Whatever.

00:03:41: you stare at it, and other people notice it.

00:03:43: And their opinions affect you.

00:03:45: It is literally on top of your head.

00:03:47: so sometimes the first thing that people see...

00:03:52: Do you think that's an extension to our personality?

00:03:57: Yes!

00:03:59: I say this confidently because all us have had a horrible haircut or color.

00:04:07: where then affects how we act?

00:04:09: you know, a person or group or presentation.

00:04:16: But when you find your cut or color that just makes you confident.

00:04:22: it really does make and break how you feel

00:04:26: Absolutely!

00:04:27: And the interesting thing is nobody can say its just here because You grow so attached to it, see what I did there?

00:04:35: See that they're with the grove.

00:04:37: Nice nice you-you grow So attached to It That Whenever Like You know People Asked me like no i'm not Attached To her.

00:04:45: I want to say that because I love cutting my hair.

00:04:48: Yeah But I also only Love Cutting My Hair Because I Know It Grows Back Really Quickly.

00:04:52: Yes Right.

00:04:54: So Where Does This attachment Come from?

00:04:57: I mean, a lot of it starts from growing up and quite honestly if i'm going to put on the table other people's opinions in how they look at you.

00:05:10: what we do with it, how it looks.

00:05:12: How it makes us feel and like I said It's something you kind of have to be with on a day-to-day basis

00:05:19: If your lucky enough?

00:05:21: Yeah if you're lucky!

00:05:22: I mean i'm starting To see the forest floor through The trees which is another episode that will talk about.

00:05:29: You know...the real emotional side Of hair loss or hair breakage And hormones in whole bit.

00:05:38: I just want to make sure that, you know if there are people out there kind of questioning or wondering like what if i start thinning?

00:05:44: Does it mean we're gonna set the record straight on this podcast and talk about all those things from either myself.

00:05:54: Specialist scientists R&D people?

00:05:56: so yeah

00:05:57: You know its also interesting for me because when he said you have to deal with it Because It's There Right Best Case Scenario You also said it's part of your personality, but it's also maybe a sign of like belonging somewhere right?

00:06:17: It builds community.

00:06:19: It shows community.

00:06:22: you can show kind

00:06:24: of who

00:06:26: are with basically yeah with your hair

00:06:30: hundred percent I mean i will take my little bubble the professional hair color, care brand Schwarzka Professional.

00:06:40: I mean like you can see us all coming from a mile away?

00:06:43: Yes we wear black

00:06:44: but... You all do!

00:06:46: But we have cool styles or really

00:06:50: cool

00:06:51: bangs of fringe or weird color combinations whatever.

00:06:55: tell me that you haven't been somewhere and be like oh thats group of hairdressers Like.. You can tell Right who works like in a very conservative professional environment and maybe doesn't have that freedom to do something with their hair or military even.

00:07:12: They're typically on the short, tight haircuts because it doesn't need to get in the way.

00:07:17: so really does... It can conform people too A group of job social standing.

00:07:26: And if we look at the cultural societal side right there are certain hairstyles to me are my mom, right?

00:07:35: Certain traditional in my case Eritrean hairstyles.

00:07:39: that whenever I see a woman out on the wild wearing that very traditional hairstyle it's called Albasso where you kind of like braid them back and then rest is open.

00:07:50: It's really tiny little tight cornrows- That's an

00:07:53: Eritrion hair.

00:07:54: Yeah

00:07:55: yeah its called Albasaillettes round here and then you kind of like have the rest open.

00:08:00: Yeah, in big.

00:08:01: so whenever I see that i'm lying huh?

00:08:04: Feel at home right away!

00:08:05: I feel home...I feel a sense of belonging.

00:08:08: it was she's like.. I know her.

00:08:10: See this old

00:08:10: nuggets?!

00:08:11: Like never knew that.

00:08:12: That is really cool.

00:08:13: It's like really tightly braided And I wore for my wedding too.

00:08:18: I wear very traditional style of Aiba.

00:08:20: So yeah its'like.

00:08:21: I had them braided to the side The front Like really like, I don't know.

00:08:26: Maybe six or something from the middle parting and then braid it to the side.

00:08:31: And then i had the back also braided in tiny little cornrows all the way to here.

00:08:37: Then the rest was just open.

00:08:40: That's a very traditional hairstyle.

00:08:42: So I see that immediately you feel home to me.

00:08:48: Do you what do mean?

00:08:49: Oh

00:08:49: my gosh.

00:08:50: No thank-you for thanks.

00:08:53: so saying hair is also identity, it's cultural belonging.

00:08:59: It's also emotion because to me right away that'll be like my mom.

00:09:06: I

00:09:07: liked that.

00:09:10: do you know what i mean?

00:09:16: Oh yeah!

00:09:18: You can tell a middle-aged mom haircut from like, you know the Midwest United States because it's efficient.

00:09:25: It's tidy.

00:09:26: It is cute and maintained but nothing splashy or special.

00:09:31: just what works for that lifestyle.

00:09:33: I think this boils down to everybody.

00:09:36: if you maintain the flash of all do it!

00:09:40: Or keep it neat & tidy

00:09:43: Do that.

00:09:43: If you,

00:09:45: if you have like that perfect blonde That costs you an arm and a leg And you're able to maintain that girl.

00:09:51: good for

00:09:53: You know

00:09:53: what I mean?

00:09:53: It says something To the world as well.

00:09:57: So Ian we are gonna be here For A few episodes.

00:10:01: Who Are We Doing This For?

00:10:05: So this Trying to find The name of this podcast And Like the reason to develop it It all really just, I did a lot of research and you know who is this for?

00:10:19: And it really is for anybody Who has hair or doesn't because we're gonna talk about that too.

00:10:27: Right um...and Just maybe has heard like myths over the years Like if you pluck a gray hair dot-dot-dot You get

00:10:34: two back!

00:10:35: Yeah

00:10:36: We also want to pep.

00:10:38: no its not When you lost it.

00:10:43: But also like, how do I talk to my hairdresser?

00:10:49: Like show them this and they give me this or we really wanna kind of... It's not a myth-busting series but will have an official scientist come here with the PhD in hair?

00:11:07: someone lose their hair and what are the different kinds of hair loss?

00:11:11: And when should you start to worry.

00:11:13: I mean, like that's a huge topic.

00:11:15: how do talk your hairdresser?

00:11:17: ingredients on bottles can be wildly overwhelming.

00:11:22: Then there is...I don't know what it called officially but fear mongering online with Don't use this because this will make your hair fall out.

00:11:33: we're gonna clear all

00:11:35: noise.

00:11:36: So if you are somebody who has hair, has lost hair buys products.

00:11:42: get your hair done.

00:11:43: If You Do Your Own Hair At Home yeah we're gonna cover some things about that too like tips and tricks About Like How To Successfully Color Your Own hair at home or when you could do it in combination with seeing a hairdresser, whatever.

00:11:55: And can you bleach your hair by yourself at home?

00:11:58: Because this is what I want to know as well.

00:12:00: asking for a friend You Can!

00:12:03: Successfully.

00:12:04: Don't Give It Away.

00:12:05: That's

00:12:07: the full episode because that Is A Full Episode.

00:12:10: Do Not Give It away.

00:12:12: So we are going To Talk About Hair Trends As Well But Kind Of Like Just Going Into That a little bit, and then we're gonna give you the little more some other time.

00:12:23: But what do think about hair trends that come?

00:12:27: And go?

00:12:30: What is here to

00:12:31: stay?".

00:12:34: Oh God!

00:12:34: This's going.

00:12:35: sound like tired statement but classics never die.

00:12:39: I mean good bob short on sides medium to short or long on top for men those kinds of things just don't ever.

00:12:49: I do think that if anybody listening to this podcast is old enough, have seen a trend or live it and then see it come back.

00:13:02: Each time it comes back It's given new meaning by the people who are doing it.

00:13:09: And so yeah, trends are cyclical.

00:13:14: Creative hairdressers and artists always try to think outside of box.

00:13:18: give us something new.

00:13:22: But yeah, I definitely think they are a way to kind of show that you know what's up right now and whether or not it suits you.

00:13:31: You can still take part in the trend and make your own.

00:13:35: Because i was wondering isn't more important than following trends?

00:13:39: but just like looks good on you?

00:13:42: There is difference between adopting and adapting.

00:13:46: And if have a hair dresser who does her hair And like, I don't know.

00:13:53: Like super long sleek hair down the front doesn't necessarily suit your face type or your face shape.

00:14:02: there are ways where you can kind of get the vibe of that longer length but tweaking it a little bit to suit your cheekbones and eyes whatever.

00:14:14: Hair dressers are trained to understand face shapes.

00:14:17: what suitability is put what's cool, what's now on almost everybody if that's what they're looking for.

00:14:24: Exactly.

00:14:25: and the fun thing about you know hairstyles these days is though... That I think people don't care too much about that part anymore.

00:14:34: it's not so much about does it look good on me but do i want to have fun with it?

00:14:38: Yeah!

00:14:39: This is something where we were moving away from like.

00:14:44: can I wear this two...?

00:14:46: But I really don't.

00:14:47: I

00:14:49: mean, I think about like people in general and kind of... The eighties was a lot working with your own hair.

00:15:00: Not the color wasn't really big.

00:15:01: Perming was cutting has been around since time started but then people got more exploratory In the nineties these giant zebra racing stripes as highlights And that's when it suited them or not.

00:15:21: It was a

00:15:21: decision made.

00:15:25: But then with the combination of texture and cutting and coloring, I mean...I'm only in this lifetime but i really feel like people have learned to take trends And make it their own With all the things that we now have available technology wise and education-wise with hairdressers.

00:15:43: Do you think people care more or less about their hair these days?

00:15:51: I don't think it's either.

00:15:53: Mm-hmm, I think that when i look back through books and movies in like you know shows of the seventies to eighties or nineties early aughts Through now.

00:16:06: Each decade has its own gripping importance Of what those trends are And how people feel at that moment.

00:16:13: but The one thing I will say That I've noticed is economy Has A huge shift on Trends like a lot of what year, early odds.

00:16:23: Like two thousand out six seven eight whatever economy crashed.

00:16:27: the shadow route was not a trend that came outta nowhere.

00:16:30: it.

00:16:30: people couldn't afford to get their highlights retouched and so let's lean into it.

00:16:36: you know in the pandemic times when everybody is locked up I had cut my own hair because i wasn't gonna risk anything.

00:16:44: do okay?

00:16:45: And Soi can only Cut My Hair To A Point then I Can't Cut What I Can See.

00:16:49: So the men's mullet is became a thing.

00:16:52: so it also kind of ebbs and flows that way as well.

00:16:57: Yeah, never thought about her that way.

00:17:00: Huh?

00:17:00: yeah right huh.

00:17:02: many things affect trends in like.

00:17:03: why people do what they Do.

00:17:05: did you ever have a hairstyle that your parents hated?

00:17:08: Oh absolutely like.

00:17:10: okay

00:17:11: Like.

00:17:11: You're not leaving The house like That.

00:17:14: I Have both A cut And A color story and i'll make It quick.

00:17:17: I was raised going to Catholic school, and they were very strict about what you couldn't could not do with your hair.

00:17:26: Now I am over forty years old and still I'm like don't tell me what to do.

00:17:30: so i went it that my parents took into the hairdresser.

00:17:33: They let them know if their like.

00:17:35: oh You can go in by yourself because you're a big boy.

00:17:37: now It's probably nine.

00:17:38: um

00:17:39: And told the hairdresser What?

00:17:40: I wanted and then I walked out and My parents are like

00:17:44: Oh That!

00:17:45: And now we're talking late eighties.

00:17:48: What did you do?

00:17:49: I decided instead of this like, stupid little boy cut where it was basically... You could do the vacuum cut.

00:17:56: Where its same thing all over- Right!

00:17:58: I cut the sides up and iwas not allowed to And my parents were legit Like..I don't know if we can send him to school or what If they sent him home.

00:18:06: We're bad parents etc.

00:18:07: And there's more out of fearing concern on their part.

00:18:10: But yeah They are like oh god we should have let you in There.

00:18:13: but then that is at the beginning.

00:18:16: Well, this is just gonna be the rest of my life.

00:18:18: So thanks!

00:18:19: You better get used to that.

00:18:21: And then for hair color My mom was just... For whatever reason so concerned That I might damage my hair or whatever.

00:18:29: She would only allow me To do like a temporary Hair color.

00:18:35: What

00:18:36: did you do?

00:18:36: I found The most beautiful and mind you i'm like Seventeen, sixteen.

00:18:43: The most Beautiful Like Intense purply aubergine, like cartoon.

00:18:52: But it was a rinse so over.

00:18:53: my brown hair wasn't really popping.

00:18:56: Was the one that came in this jar with the screw lid on?

00:19:02: It sold at a drugstore and I would stockpile them because they were afraid to discontinue them.

00:19:10: but then made the worst mistake ever.

00:19:13: right before a prom I decided to...I don't want this anymore.

00:19:18: I'm gonna be blonde.

00:19:20: Before prom?

00:19:22: Before prom with purple, temporary tinted hair.

00:19:25: Oh my

00:19:26: god!

00:19:26: So sorry.

00:19:27: Sorry microphone.

00:19:28: What happened?

00:19:30: Let's just say that i was this glowing shade of like a pumpkin chiffon.

00:19:41: It was like October came knocking and put batteries in my head.

00:19:45: And it was, for whatever reason... If people wanted to bribe me as a professional hairdresser they would find that picture because I thought why wasn't I ashamed of that?

00:19:59: Why?

00:20:01: You rocked it!

00:20:02: Look at me In the middle part.

00:20:07: Did you look like Nick from The Backstreet Boys?

00:20:09: Yeah.

00:20:10: Nick Carter,

00:20:11: like this?

00:20:12: Oh my God!

00:20:14: So with me I think...I never did.

00:20:16: the color thing was crazy but I vividly do remember that day when first relaxed my hair My mom and now there's no reason for me to relax her at all.

00:20:30: And then she said don't do it Don't Do It.

00:20:33: Then i talked to my sister

00:20:35: How old were you?

00:20:36: Sixteen.

00:20:37: Okay, it's like older so there was not much she could say.

00:20:41: but also She really she was like she almost cried when I when she saw me do It because it was like super unnecessary.

00:20:48: and then and then i was just Like

00:20:50: did you cry cuz it looked good or no?

00:20:52: Because

00:20:52: he didn't want me to do with my hair right sure.

00:20:54: So shes like You cannot put that many chemicals into your hair.

00:21:01: straighten it for what?

00:21:03: Because then I would still wear my hair curly, like eighty percent at the time.

00:21:07: Just now they look limp little things that were just holding on to a structure or dear life right didn't make any sense.

00:21:16: so she really hated and you know what i did it six more years oh wow.

00:21:22: And Then I just thought It was no big revelation.

00:21:28: I haven't done it in eight weeks, so let me just cut it off and kind of regrow.

00:21:36: And that was like in the early two thousands when Like The Big Chop was a thing right?

00:21:41: So That's what i did.

00:21:42: but here is my younger brother has had every hair color on God's green earth, and he started when He was fourteen.

00:21:52: But because He was the youngest my parents just didn't have it in them anymore.

00:21:57: to correct Him they were like I guess He has blue hair now?

00:22:00: Probably this is interesting.

00:22:01: you have kids do You have...I mean They're still fairly young from what i remember.

00:22:08: yeah so Like When that time comes for Them to

00:22:12: experiment with their hair?

00:22:13: But

00:22:14: here's the thing, because I'm like not a regular mom.

00:22:17: Oh cool mom!

00:22:18: Ah yes, very well.

00:22:20: Okay so I'm your cool mom.

00:22:22: um...I do their hair right and i do braid their hair aswell And..i feel like they can't have fun with it As long as its Right now Because They're So Young Not Permanently Damaging Their Hair.

00:22:37: What we Do Is We Play With Color

00:22:41: but temporary colors.

00:22:42: Rating hair, right?

00:22:44: Oh

00:22:45: like extensions!

00:22:46: I braid their hair with electric blue.

00:22:49: yeah i've done purple.

00:22:50: i have a soft baby pink you know and one time my daughter went to school she had braids that were this color.

00:23:00: her teacher said oh my god you look like pop star.

00:23:07: Oh God, quarter in machine.

00:23:09: She's

00:23:10: like where is the wind machine?

00:23:12: Yeah yeah she had her own.

00:23:15: Sorry sorry microphone but I do think it's.

00:23:18: having said that i do think its really important to let kids experiment with their hair and also have that awkward face Have weird

00:23:28: hair because they should have horrible pictures of going to prom in their chest that they will never open.

00:23:34: it's ever to anybody.

00:23:36: only fair You know

00:23:37: hidden in the back of the closet for never the light of day just see again

00:23:41: ashamed a little bit.

00:23:43: So

00:23:44: I

00:23:44: feel like yeah, let them look awkward Let them let them experiment with hair.

00:23:49: Yeah and ya.

00:23:51: but at the same time we are so attached to hair, especially when we grow up.

00:23:58: So why do you think it is people change their hair?

00:24:04: When they enter a new chapter...

00:24:07: Oh okay.

00:24:08: so wait a minute like real talk.

00:24:11: right now I'm on this little weight loss journey and to kick it off.

00:24:17: i know anybody who is listening to this right now am kicking it off Like going into the gym doing my thing You did.

00:24:25: Yes, for those who are only listening it's super short on the sides because that's my like confident mode.

00:24:31: but It signified to me Like I made such a big visible change That i look at in the mirror But that everybody Who?

00:24:40: I work with and I see On a day-to-day basis notices And what that Signifies To myself is something What that signifies other people In what they can See.

00:24:54: And I think it's so, you know... It's such a change of life.

00:25:01: You know?

00:25:01: I just had a baby!

00:25:02: I want to color my

00:25:03: hair!!

00:25:04: I just broke up with

00:25:05: somebody!!!

00:25:05: I need

00:25:05: bangs!!

00:25:06: Like..it's such thing you do when your about start the next chapter or forced to start the new chapter and i think because is definitely signifies the turning of a page and like this is what I want to be next.

00:25:27: This is really interesting that you say this, because I had this too.

00:25:31: Before I started doing television, I would kind of style my hair going outfit first like look what I wanted to wear and then I decided what hair goes with it right?

00:25:43: Is my outfit full of texture?

00:25:45: than maybe tone down the texture in me here.

00:25:47: either do a sleek bun or straight hair whatever.

00:25:51: so i think out fit for us.

00:25:53: oh This hair goes with this outfit because I like love to play with her, right?

00:25:57: But then I started doing music television and they had a look for me in mind.

00:26:04: And that look was curls.

00:26:07: They were like you're gonna be our curly

00:26:08: girl.".

00:26:09: And I was like all right, I'll have my curls why not?

00:26:11: but then I realized being only the curl... Curly girls kind of boring, right ?

00:26:17: But it wasn't my thing Not allowed.

00:26:23: That's an interesting

00:26:24: time.

00:26:24: But it was also that time where you could just tell people what to do with their hair, and I'd be like HR.

00:26:29: Right?

00:26:30: Like What Do You

00:26:31: Mean?,

00:26:31: I Can't Watch Me No but then i started doing more mainstream television right And they were like yeah so we think the curls are cute ,but We kind of want you To have straight Hair.

00:26:45: and my hair was really light at the time, right?

00:26:49: And then I ended up having to have... because I was doing the same thing, like both things at the same time.

00:26:54: So I was only allowed to wear straight hair there and then it was only allow to where Crowley here.

00:26:58: they're so had really two separate identities in a way right?

00:27:02: It wasn't that girl their and other girl over there who is really interesting cause I took both of them into an extreme night cuz when i have the straight hares like clip ins you know down to hear having a lot also a lot her head a moment yeah as if its all on air waves and like a whole thing.

00:27:23: And the other's like, I'm curly!

00:27:25: And this curly bouncy girl.

00:27:27: so that...and then..I thought about it....then i cut all of them off.

00:27:35: Like I swear to God just cut it ALL OFF.

00:27:37: Can

00:27:38: you ask because that chapter was over?

00:27:40: You were done with being tossed back-and

00:27:42: forth??

00:27:43: Basically

00:27:44: I said, you know what?

00:27:46: I am done.

00:27:47: Me or YOU wanting me be one thing and those people over there wanting me to be that thing or that person.

00:27:58: And I was like, how about-

00:27:59: You both y'all can go kick rocks?

00:28:00: Do

00:28:02: you know what I mean?

00:28:02: Because I'm all the time... That's not fair!

00:28:05: Me being over here are like no!

00:28:07: So i had short hair in my head but it kind of like you buzzed off the sides.

00:28:13: Page

00:28:13: turns new chapter.

00:28:15: The grow out phase is really interesting as well when we put it this way because transitional hairstyles.

00:28:24: So I wouldn't go that short again, but it was all there.

00:28:26: so i absolutely understand.

00:28:28: like to like...I had to cut it off in order to kind of just be me again you know?

00:28:34: I understand.

00:28:38: So you see, when people say it's just hair.

00:28:41: You all know that's a lie.

00:28:43: and That what this podcast is about?

00:28:45: It's not Just Hair its so much more And we're gonna dive into and tap in to All the little areas have to do with hair, like how to take care of it.

00:28:56: How to color it?

00:28:57: How maybe bleach yourself?

00:29:00: What is that actually growing out our hair?

00:29:04: the history and you're going be along us on this ride.

00:29:10: we are really looking forward.

00:29:12: see in next episode bye A podcast from Henkel Consumer Brands,

00:29:26: brought to you

00:29:27: by the Global Hair Upskilling Team produced

00:29:30: by

00:29:30: Bose Park Productions.

00:29:32: Executive producers Manjana Dietrich, Sue Holder and Chris Guese.

00:29:37: Editor Ian

00:29:38: Mayer-Marcellek.

00:29:39: Production Fabio Lautenschläger.

00:29:42: Project management Miki Sitz Hair & Makeup Rania Abduraman Ariel Tross.

00:29:48: Styling Romina Mann.

00:29:52: If you like Gossip Crawl, please subscribe to the podcast.

00:29:55: Hit that notification bell so we don't miss an episode and while your at it leave us a review until all of our friends about this.