Hair Through the Ages

00:00:04: Gossip Girl, the podcast about all things hair.

00:00:14: Hi and welcome back to Gossip Curl, The Podcast About All Things Hair!

00:00:18: My name is Hadna Tesfaye.

00:00:20: I am your host in this wonderful space where we get into hair...all kinds of hair types of hair, all lengths of it.

00:00:32: And I am here with the fantastic Ian Mayer-Marzalic.

00:00:36: Hi Ian!

00:00:37: Thanks for having me.

00:00:38: Well thanks for being back on this podcast Ian.

00:00:41: in the very first episode we talk about what hair really means not so much What It Is but what it means to us as humans.

00:00:49: right and kind like taking that from there i want To Talk About why humans actually have hair because we can do all kinds of cute things with it.

00:01:01: But that's not, Why We Have Hair?

00:01:04: Why Do We Have Haired?

00:01:08: I mean okay so-

00:01:11: And Because Can I Say This Yeah yeah i mean some.

00:01:13: Some Of Us Maybe me.

00:01:15: We pay a lot of money to get rid of some hair and they're desperately trying to keep her on other places in our body, right?

00:01:23: Yeah So why do we have here?

00:01:26: so yeah It's it's the struggle with trying to Keep what we've got where we want it And then get rid Of it Where we don't.

00:01:31: but that was not The case.

00:01:34: God I Don't know how Many thousands of Years ago But when people Like humans started to like walk on the planet earth.

00:01:49: A lot of them were kind of concentrated towards the center of the equator.

00:01:53: and so hair originally, I mean for lack of lots of research started as a solar shield And humans you know it started to then walk more upright a protection from the sun.

00:02:15: And so when we started walking upright, because humans' brains are like really sensitive to temperature hair stayed on our head but then slowly disappeared from her body because hair also acts as an insulation.

00:02:30: So it's starting to disappear form our bodies in bulk cause I've seen some hairy people out there Cool, it's sweating and evaporating is your body's way to cool itself.

00:02:44: And so while we do sweat still from the top of our heads because we walk upright It Is The Way That Nature Has Provided Us A Protection From The Sun

00:02:53: And its really interesting Because I mean Simultaneously To Losing.

00:02:57: Here.

00:02:57: We Probably Started Covering Up Our Bodies In A Way

00:03:00: Yeah?

00:03:02: If i were a designer I would absolutely run with that.

00:03:08: No, but yeah I would imagine like it.

00:03:11: you know clothing a whole topic is yes probably in a way because some sort of way to shield your bits from the sun.

00:03:20: Right not only here also growing hair on your bits and going into that um It means something?

00:03:28: Yes!

00:03:29: It kind of signals something out-of-world.

00:03:32: Yeah so i don't origin story expert, but I did do some research before I came here.

00:03:42: On the significance in hair and what it meant.

00:03:45: a long time ago when people were walking around with leather patches on their naughty bits mating.

00:03:55: humans are meant to procreate.

00:03:59: A female would see males And the ones that have established hair on their bodies, because that's what happens to us as we grew up.

00:04:08: All of us actually signaled it.

00:04:11: they were ready to procreate.

00:04:13: so its like an evolutionary thing is well right?

00:04:17: Like oh beard okay good yeah

00:04:21: I mean It also signalled you know maturity Because young men typically cannot or don't grow a lot of facial hair, like rocking a solid beard.

00:04:33: But as you age?

00:04:34: You do.

00:04:35: and so that kind of signaled maturity.

00:04:37: So Hair in general whether it's on your head Your face Or your body really Signified A lot In culture Age Groupings Mateability Quite about.

00:04:50: Let's jump forward a couple of thousand years to where we feel a lot more comfortable.

00:04:56: You and me, let's go back to the twentieth century.

00:05:01: What can you tell me about Schwarzkopf?

00:05:03: So fun fact.

00:05:04: I work for this brand called Schwartzkopf And started in Germany and way way way back in the day.

00:05:13: so he started.

00:05:14: Han Schwartzkoff started his apothecary actually in Berlin Dealing and dyes drugs perfumes and things of that nature.

00:05:22: Did you know, way back early nineteen hundreds from eighteen ninety eight to nineteen or three.

00:05:29: This is the time frame that I specifically now women were still setting their hair with like really heavy setting lotions and then wearing it for a very long time because girl wasn't going into the salon once a week to get blowout if they had to last.

00:05:41: Wow how long did this?

00:05:42: It didn't have two weeks

00:05:46: No longer.

00:05:47: Longer

00:05:47: than that, interesting!

00:05:48: So then like you think about what kind of funk builds up under there on their scalp and whatnot.

00:05:53: so here's the kicker Way.

00:05:55: back then people used to cleanse their hair with kerosene

00:06:00: Interesting

00:06:01: Like the lamp lighter fluid or lye which is a hella harsh soap that people like launderers use in its Crazy alkaline.

00:06:10: I mean, no matter which way you slice it each one of those things is incredibly damaged damaging to your hair.

00:06:16: Okay Like if you could imagine washing your hair with gasoline

00:06:19: what interest

00:06:19: today Right?

00:06:21: What that here would feel like so current on sports cough in nineteen oh three was commissioned To make the very first ever powdered shampoo And it was a flake shampoo That you'd add water too.

00:06:33: and it was still alkaline Which acidity and pH will get into another episode but It was So much better than washing your hair in petrol.

00:06:42: Um, so it was the first ever commission shampoo and then um uh he developed to be very first-ever liquid shampoo And Then The First Ever Acidic Shampoo.

00:06:52: I just think that's such a cool like this whole company That i've worked for For Such A Long Time Like We Started In Shampoo.

00:07:00: That is so interesting because come to think about it like even before that, but we're not gonna go back in history again.

00:07:05: We're going to move forward from now on right?

00:07:08: But It's So Interesting just To Think About The Fact.

00:07:12: And We Have A Full Episode On Wash Days Coming Up For You

00:07:16: Because

00:07:17: Not All Wash Days Are Created Equal.

00:07:21: Just To Think Of When Hair Care Started and How how different it's become over the centuries, because we've always had hair.

00:07:31: We always wanted to do funny things with it or interesting things with that adorned hide-it under wigs.

00:07:37: Do this with it?

00:07:39: But think technology only started giving us industrially produced and manufactured hair care until like a hundred and thirty, twenty years ago.

00:08:00: That is interesting.

00:08:01: so going through time right that does change something.

00:08:08: hair care yeah I'm pretty sure it changes hairstyles as well.

00:08:13: oh

00:08:13: my god.

00:08:16: I've been fascinated throughout my life, seeing like these coffee table books that'll be like hair through the decades.

00:08:21: or if you're flipping to Instagram every once in a while.

00:08:23: You see like the morphing pictures of men's styles and whatever.

00:08:27: but like nineteen twenties for example we are moving from nineteen oh three to nineteen twenties now.

00:08:33: Men's Styles were very slick Like you could see your reflection on how slick they had because it meant cleanliness and parting order And keeping it cut tight, and women were still doing their hair like that.

00:08:47: But then in every decade there's some sort of rebellion with trends the way people wear they're here And so you'll see now even today a lot Halloween costumes That are like The Flapper Girl.

00:09:02: It

00:09:03: has this specific hairstyle

00:09:06: Because Women were supposed to have long hair because it meant femininity.

00:09:12: So these other women, subset of women were like skip that noise.

00:09:18: I'm cutting it off!

00:09:19: I'm gonna do a bob and so i think probably one the most recent shows is down in Abby right?

00:09:27: The daughter she had that bob.

00:09:29: but then you know her grandmother still had that like coughed up curl coily also

00:09:34: kind of crunchy.

00:09:35: oh

00:09:35: its look it's choice.

00:09:37: um decision was made

00:09:39: hundred percent Yeah, and then you just move on through the decades where like hair got longer.

00:09:45: Hair got shorter in the the the sixties You know?

00:09:51: The Bob came back again And it was Podal Sassoon who kind of introduced high precision technical bob cut

00:10:02: Which also reflects time because we're looking at space age.

00:10:08: Everything is really forward pointed, we're going to the moon and we need the technical haircut that goes with it.

00:10:16: You know what I mean?

00:10:17: In a way right yeah.

00:10:18: And at the same time What you have in that period of time is people also discovering their texture which was just Also sort of rebellion.

00:10:28: Right People kind Of like Going Like let's ditch The relaxers Let's wear the fro right.

00:10:34: Yeah That's also some Sort of act of freedom almost, you know?

00:10:40: It's really interesting.

00:10:41: And then take me to the other decades...

00:10:45: I mean it is kind of funny how like style trend and conformity flip-flop throughout the years because then in the sixties when Bob came back The other women had this giant bouffante moment You get into seventies You know, men were starting to grow their hair long.

00:11:08: Like this kind of hippie vibe and women would do in like fun little accessories on there here.

00:11:12: And then eighties was just a full blown panic attack Of the bigger The better froze perms Oh my god!

00:11:21: Um...the mullet like man we're doing This blow dried quaff kinda up-and back moment In the

00:11:28: bleaching.

00:11:29: oh God Oh my, there was almost reckless the way they would bleach their hair.

00:11:33: Yeah

00:11:34: and perming I mean like texture really came about for a lot of people who didn't naturally have curly hair in the eighties.

00:11:45: that's what we did.

00:11:46: That's why you got perms.

00:11:48: And then it just kind of has evolved flip-flopping over time.

00:11:54: but as We educate ourselves more and i say us is hairdressers We kind of harness the opportunities that cutting and coloring techniques in texture techniques, whether it's straightening relaxing perming waving Or or diminishing texture by like these smoothing systems When you wrap all that up together.

00:12:16: I really feel like hair has come to a place Where if you want you can be really high maintenance.

00:12:24: And somehow I feel like the opposite is also okay right now.

00:12:28: People are just kind of rocking whatever they... ...are born

00:12:31: with.".

00:12:32: I want to get into that real quick, but before we do that and also i wanna talk you about the role social media plays now when it comes not only to creating trends But Also The Possibility It Gives You Right?

00:12:45: Um..I Want To Go Back Too Because She Said All Those Different Techniques That People Developed Over The Years Do you think, and because also your like the global ambassador for upskilling?

00:13:00: Yeah.

00:13:01: Hair upskilling manager right which is also about skill do You Think The Skill Has Also Developed not necessarily technologicals that are, the technologies that are available to you but this skill.

00:13:15: The actual skill of cutting doing a curve and just do it like that has changed over the years?

00:13:22: I'm gonna age myself just little bit here.

00:13:24: say that i graduated what we call in America beauty school or cosmetology school if your fancy um... And In two thousand My full head of highlights versus what people are graduating school now.

00:13:40: I mean, there's my favorite analogy like if you're in your forties thirties or forties What did your school picture look like when you were ten years old?

00:13:51: Versus kids now who are ten-years-old these little girls that rockin balayage and boys with their little fade cuts Like... somebody put a bowl over my head, cock-eyed and went at me with trimmer.

00:14:03: Like no.

00:14:04: So I feel like the same is true With this skill level because social media has you know for better or worse And i do believe both.

00:14:14: Yeah

00:14:14: Forced people to look At what they Do and figure out how They can do it Better than The person next To them who's doing the Same thing.

00:14:24: How much pressure does that put on people in cosmetology school right now, the people who are learning?

00:14:32: That puts a lot of pressure I feel as someone who hasn't been to Cosmetology School.

00:14:41: It puts so much pressure on younger people going through... ...the learning phase.

00:14:48: they have to present a fully developed product to the world.

00:14:55: A portfolio, if you will?

00:14:56: Right

00:14:57: but that's not fair.

00:14:58: where does it give you room to grow and is it so?

00:15:04: do have those experiences in private were nobody can see it.

00:15:07: Where did you put that?

00:15:08: You know what

00:15:10: I mean If i showed my mannequin head skeleton closet from when was at school.

00:15:16: there are some atrocities

00:15:20: Those poor mannequins.

00:15:22: What did you do to them?

00:15:23: Oh God,

00:15:24: no!

00:15:24: Do they have hair still?

00:15:26: Some don't know but that was when I was learning how to fade hair.

00:15:29: so um yeah i do think there's a lot of pressure on hairdressers But in this...I think This is advice That I give You.

00:15:39: Know younger Hairdressers or educators right that I Have an impact On but I Think That This Advice Goes for a lot of other industries in general.

00:15:48: right now, whether you're sales marketing art whatever Nobody can be everything for everybody.

00:15:54: Mm-hmm.

00:15:55: so What do you like?

00:15:58: what are you passionate about?

00:15:59: and run with that And be the best at it because you can't Be the mass You can't be.

00:16:05: you know The master cutter color texture smooth Like.

00:16:09: I mean i guess i guess they're out there.

00:16:10: Right

00:16:11: It's not me unicorns yeah They're also out there but like

00:16:16: Do you love?

00:16:18: Own it, run with it.

00:16:20: Research it come up with something new about and just make that your niche because the people down this street next to around or whatever have something else to offer.

00:16:31: okay but from a consumer perspective being right.

00:16:34: um To take us here now what I sometimes find really difficult to navigate is i do not want different salons because I get my hair cut there and then i Get My color There And Then, I get I don't know.

00:16:48: My Styling There Is it Don't?

00:16:50: We also Just need People who can do everything just solidly, like it should be a solid hairdresser.

00:16:57: Yes You don't have to excel Like I don't need you too because you know i don't Need

00:17:02: right

00:17:03: when i'm doing the school run?

00:17:05: Do you know what i mean?

00:17:06: yes

00:17:07: i Don't need it on a tuesday morning When i'm going into class correct me.

00:17:10: so

00:17:11: i think if Yeah there are hair dressers out There who Are very well-rounded and Very Well respected as they Should Be.

00:17:24: I grew up in a time where you specialize in chemicals or cutting and so, really found my niche color.

00:17:33: Can i do both?

00:17:34: Yeah!

00:17:35: can i do well...

00:17:37: Equally.

00:17:39: But if were going to give my friend the haircut like she wanted it like trim yeah totally And some people value certain things about their hair more than others.

00:17:51: So like if I'm pouring money into balayage and i want long hair, I'm cool with getting by trimming it you know?

00:17:58: Maybe do a big haircut twice year but I don't need somebody who's you know Fidel Sassoon to do my trims every appointment.

00:18:05: so...

00:18:06: Because especially in this economy we're gonna talk in passing talked about it, and the first episode.

00:18:14: But I wanna get a little bit deeper into it because this economy not everyone can afford that right?

00:18:21: So your advice is to kind of stick to one thing you want to stand out and spend money on that.

00:18:33: That's number One.

00:18:34: And Number Two Is How Does the economy and where we are, whether we appear or down here right now.

00:18:43: How does that shape trends?

00:18:46: Okay to your first question.

00:18:49: if you've got the money hit it go get that color.

00:18:55: do all over bleach because that is highest maintenance hair color.

00:18:58: I think pretty much there.

00:19:02: full episodes, we have two episodes on here.

00:19:05: Like one on hair color and what I'm bleaching.

00:19:07: so stay tuned for that.

00:19:08: yeah um

00:19:10: So if you got it do it You know?

00:19:12: Um If its tough times which you know It is Some people have to prioritize right.

00:19:20: And so i color my own hair but i go To somebody to have a cut And i think A lot of People are making sacrifices to their Hair in That way.

00:19:32: Things are tight because that's kind of just you know, like when money is tight You're like do we keep cable or do we buy nice groceries?

00:19:38: Like somewhere there has to be a give.

00:19:41: Yeah But what was interesting and he talked about this in the last episode it was like economic times shape trends And you can kind of see that throughout the decades with the trends that have evolved and if you look closer Almost always maybe there's a war or something that broke out where like things get more expensive over here, so I have to balance that.

00:20:05: Over here i had mentioned you know men's mullets or just mullet in general like business on the front part of back.

00:20:11: if your cutting your own hair it is quite literally easiest haircut for u do one.

00:20:16: length trims layers and curls blowouts might take a back seat but thats not everybody and so I think hairdressers can still survive with kaleidoscope of different kinds of clients that they get, or people do it themselves.

00:20:32: Right?

00:20:33: And this is I feel like where we are right now just more and more people doing... More things at home.

00:20:40: Yep!

00:20:41: Is the- Like what are the limits to that?

00:20:48: You know what?

00:20:49: i gotta be perfectly honest with you a professional hairdresser work for a professional company.

00:20:57: Do I want everybody to go hairdresser?

00:20:59: Yeah, of course.

00:20:59: But with...

00:21:01: Because you care about hairdressers

00:21:02: very much do.

00:21:03: You do!

00:21:03: You care about hair dresser.

00:21:04: yeah but what i'm seeing as well is like maybe ...you know ..I go the salon and both highlight and color my hair.

00:21:19: what I'm seeing and just whatever people are comfortable with.

00:21:23: So hairdressers, I am not promoting this.

00:21:25: I'm just saying whatever people going to be comfortable but maybe those who color their own grays at home every three weeks for like the two times.

00:21:36: then they go in for a big visit which is the color and highlights or whatever.

00:21:42: What's the limits of coloring?

00:21:44: With YouTube color application and how much it's splashed out in media.

00:21:54: I'm, tell you what there is some funny fails that i've seen on YouTube but theres also like oh my god they did that.

00:22:04: wow thats okay!

00:22:07: And here's what...I'll end with a high note..there are a lot of companies have professional colors have availability of color for everybody out there.

00:22:22: And maybe I just don't like going to the salon, can't afford go to the saloon but i wanna do some stuff to my hair and want to you know bleach it, color my grays make it shiny or whatever.

00:22:34: There should be something available to everyone based on where ever they're at in life.

00:22:39: Is their more available?

00:22:41: Are companies picking up on that?

00:22:44: Some are some aren't.

00:22:46: what I'm noticing right now with like shopping and consumer trends that there's companies That are really specializing a lot more in specific niches.

00:22:57: Okay,

00:22:58: but then also There's companies that are doing multifunctional products Like a ten-in-one or like you know it does all these things because people aren't wanting to spend some People aren't running to spend money on six products or whatever.

00:23:11: so It's really a mixed bag right now in twenty-twenty six.

00:23:16: And apart from the fact what you can and cannot do at home, we know... Do you think that trends are changing too quickly?

00:23:30: Coming going to quickly

00:23:34: if it is so

00:23:37: hard to keep up like sometimes I don't even know

00:23:43: As a hairdresser, sometimes when people come in and they're like what's new?

00:23:45: You are like... Yeah!

00:23:51: It is quick.

00:23:51: I'm so happy to hear that you were saying that.

00:23:54: No we keep up with trends but it is hard.

00:23:59: They are quick.

00:24:03: And i come from the US where we very celebrity based Whereas other parts of world look fashion and trend in different places.

00:24:13: Papa Ratsy can take a picture of J.Lo or some other celebrity walking down the street, now all of sudden clients are asking for that?

00:24:22: Or people trying to achieve on their own at home and then next week they're getting a picture Camindias' cute new extension shade-of-blonde or like The Bissette actress Carolyn Bissett.

00:24:37: I mean...

00:24:39: the

00:24:39: new show, The New Color.

00:24:41: The new

00:24:41: trend.".

00:24:43: Right right I'm gonna be honest with y'all.

00:24:46: like one Instagram reel or one TikTok video away from getting the Zendaya haircut and my algorithms are pushing that on me hard

00:24:59: Our phones in the room, it's going to come up even more now.

00:25:01: Oh

00:25:01: my God!

00:25:04: It is already there.

00:25:05: so I'm like really heavily influenced by that as well Even though i am a grown ass woman Like.

00:25:12: I don't know what this means.

00:25:14: cutting my hair you know But still its there and putting some pressure on me which was interesting right?

00:25:23: but yes okay.

00:25:24: So even YOU guys the professionals who are sometimes overwhelmed by it.

00:25:31: Yes, that's just really good to hear because you start to feel left out.

00:25:38: first time somebody like this is a while ago... By now I know what it means but when someone was saying yeah there's like a wolf cut i was like What do you mean?

00:25:46: A Wolf Cut.

00:25:48: and then you realize its somewhere in between a mullet and shag.

00:25:53: Yeah, I know what that is.

00:25:55: But then you kind of go like that trend?

00:25:58: You just sparked...I want to know how to do the research and maybe we'll put it in the comments where this podcast lives.

00:26:05: but what year did that specifically become popular?

00:26:08: because i would bet if i were a gambling man- I'd bet five euros!

00:26:14: That became a trend as a result of people wanting Shaggy look at home by themselves.

00:26:22: Interesting, that could be a thing because

00:26:24: I'll tell you the techniques i have seen for That to Be Done is three sections.

00:26:28: You grab The top and Make A cut.

00:26:30: in the middle

00:26:31: you make a cut right?

00:26:31: I'll Tell you what a professional hairdresser has been trained Would Look At That And Be like um Okay So I would Bet That's Maybe Where That Started But I don't know That For Sure.

00:26:43: but

00:26:45: Listen If You Know Let Us Know In The Comments Because Right, and also maybe you want to let us know when's the first time that?

00:26:53: You ever heard of a wolf cat And did you see it.

00:26:56: Did you ever get it done?

00:26:57: Let us know how that worked for you would be really curious to find out.

00:27:01: Also Whoever wants to grab Ian's five euros.

00:27:06: You know what to do.

00:27:08: All the year money, five euros right?

00:27:11: So Ian thank you so much for taking us through the history

00:27:16: of

00:27:16: hair and trends And listen we're gonna try get some order into all information that is out there in next few episodes Of Gossip Curl The podcast about all things hair.

00:27:29: Thankyou so much Ian Absolutely

00:27:30: ThankYou

00:27:31: So much fun.

00:27:32: See you later Bye Gossip Girl, the podcast about all things hair.

00:27:40: With me your host, Hadnick Tessweil A Podcast from Henke Consumer Brands

00:27:45: brought to you by the Global

00:27:47: Hair Upskilling Team produced

00:27:49: by

00:27:49: Bose Park Productions.

00:27:52: Executive Producers Manjana Dietrich Soehlder and Chris Guese.

00:27:56: Editor Ian

00:27:57: Mayer Marsalik.

00:27:59: Production Fabio Lautenschläger.

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